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Wenn du dich vor ein gutes Bild stellst, trittst du mit diesem in einen hochartifiziellen, metaphysischen Dialog. Diese Diskussionen hatten wir damals auch. Ich habe mich viel mit Beuys auseinandergesetzt, der bei uns heftig diskutiert wurde. Schaut Euch Diebenkorn an, da seht ihr Thomas Scheibitz. Ich betreibe Bildforschung, aber die Malerei ist der Kern, und die Folgen sind der Prozess sowohl beim Betrachter als auch bei mir.

Da ist ein Vermeer wichtig, und ich schaue mir an, wie er Licht malt. FGA Die Materie. Diese Stadt ist barock, verspielt, kitschig. Das hat mit harter Geometrie nichts zu tun. Das ist eigentlich Ludwig XIV. Das ist wie eine Katakombengemeinde. RK Das sagt es doch. Dresden wird nur als historischer Ort betrachtet. Kommen sie, weil sie etwas lernen wollen, oder wollen sie Ruhm und Geld? RK Eine wichtige Frage Sie kommen schon wegen der Kunst, aber wegen einer Kunst, die mit Malerei zu tun hat, und nicht mit dem erweiterten Kunstbegriff einer Catherine David.

Das sind alles sehr gebildete und intelligente junge Menschen, aber dieser bestimmte anarchistische Drive, den man braucht, um etwas ganz anders zu machen, der fehlt. Die anderen haben oben gestanden und gesagt, um Gottes willen, das sprengt alles. Die Studenten heute wollen schnell eine Galerie finden und Geld verdienen. FGA Was ist deine Haltung dazu? Und uns hat das damals nicht interessiert.

Das war auch sehr politisch, was wir gemacht haben. Und die Studenten heute FGA Der politische Aspekt ist verschwunden. RK Das ist der Punkt. Vielleicht ein etwas spezieller Ansatz, der in Richtung Beuys zielt, aber es ist etwas dran. Man muss sich nur anschauen, wie der Staat jetzt mit der Umstellung auf den Bachelor-Studiengang restriktiv in die Freiheit der Kunst eingreift.

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Soon after the collapse of the Wall, he relocated from Munich to Dresden, where he is one of the most important collectors. We are intrigued about his ideas on collecting, the role of art collectors, their importance for artists, and the Dresdener Malerschule. FGA What was the first work of art you bought and when was that?

My uncle was a collector and was president of the Friends of the Museum. In the cabinet in my hallway is a small book entitled Collection Heinemann. It is his collection, not mine. So I got to know Joseph Beuys when I was sixteen. I bought a work by Beuys for 10 or 15 deutschmarks. Meeting Beuys, Carl Andre and all those people in the mid-sixties in the Rhineland had a big influence on me. Last year we invited him as a guest at our Forum. I moved to Dresden in shortly after reunification. I was spending a lot of time in Dresden and Leipzig and I decided to stay.

By coincidence in I got a big criminal case at the court in Dresden. I found out that there were nearly no criminal defence lawyers here. Then after I decided it was my vocation to be a criminal defence lawyer. But I can still be involved in culture by collecting art and organising cultural activities on the side.

FGA Is there a link between art and law?

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SH There is a link between the work of criminal justice and art. Both try to reconstruct truth. Art tries to reconstruct truth in a very personal way. In the courtroom, none of us was at the scene of the crime, not the judge, not the defence lawyer nor the prosecutor. Sometimes we even have to exclude things we know, we are not allowed to consider certain knowledge for reasons of law. For example: the husband killed his wife and the only witness was the son. In German law the son is not urged to talk.

He has to be informed of his legal rights not to say anything. If this information has not been given to him his then his testimony is impermissable. FGA So you are making a thought construction? SH Right. And artists also have a special take on truth, and give expression to that.

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  • That is comparable. FGA So you play a game with very strict rules?

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    Is that comparable with art? I think many situations in art play with procedural rules. FGA But in art, the important thing is playing with unwritten rules, changing them, breaking them That sounds like the opposite to me. SH It is not, as many rules in law are not in writing but in the sense of the written law.

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    The final art fair in Dresden took place in And then we made a catalogue entitled Dresden Privat of private collections in Dresden. I am building a new house. The building site you saw is for my private home, my office and the architectural office of my friend, who also designed the building. But I also bought the plot next to it, on the river Elbe, and I am thinking of building a little art hall.

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    FGA A pavilion? We must finish the house first! FGA What is the theme of the next Forum? The forum evenings are by personal invitation only.

    You are welcomed as a guest in a small company. SH My collection is not very focused, but there are some clear motifs, such as the use of text and letters by artists such as Lawrence Weiner, Liam Gillick and others. The way the works are currently presented in the house is not very organised.

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    In the new house we will be able to make a good plan of how to show it all. FGA Do you also consider inviting a curator? SH First I will do it myself. Perhaps some time later.

    First I need more space. The works are just everywhere now. FGA Do you often change the hanging arrangement of works in your house? SH Yes, for instance this is a recent work by Frank Nitsche, and those two are older works of his. So I wanted to see them together and had to replace some other works. There are two works by Mohamed Tabal that I bought in Morocco.

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    FGA Do you follow certain artists? SH Yes, for instance Thomas Scheibitz. Probably I was the first to buy a work from him during the speech at his first exhibition at gallery Gebr. Lehmann in Now I do as long as I afford it. And Frank Nitsche and Eberhard Havekost too. I bought these works ten years ago just after they graduated from the art academy in Dresden. Most of my decisions to buy are completely spontaneous. I go to a gallery or a studio, and if I like it and can afford it, I buy. FGA And have they always been the right decisions? Nebst einigen Zusaetzen zur Mechanik, Optik und Gnomonik.